National Youth Rights Association Which Religious Traditions Do You Embrace Most? | Off Topic

10:06 pm
November 12, 2004

burntmoon

posts 101

62

I just pluck a little here, a little there. Even if, say, buddhism says something that christians also believe in, I consider my believe in that particular thing from both faiths instead of one. But, personally, I'm not really… all in one place. And what I say when people ask me what religion I am, changes with every answer.

In a nut shell, I have faith without religion, and belief in something that I know nothing about. I know there's something out there, and I acknowledge it. Whether it acknowledges me or not, I do not know. A good line I use when people talk about a god or goddess, and what they want is, "How dare you presume to know the will of a god?"

Seriously.

But I'm happy this way. If I concreted myself to one place, I'd be pretending to be something I'm not. As it is, I like how I am.

What was I talking about again?

Crap, I don't remember.

-me

10:48 pm
November 12, 2004

Anduwaithe

posts 13532

63

Yasha wrote: Conversion in Judaism isn't the same as conversion in Christianity.

That's right. Someone who converts to Christianity can stop being a Christian if they no longer accept Jesus, whereas once you become a Jew, you're a Jew for the rest of your life no matter what you do, and your ([depending on which movement of Judaism] matrilineal) descendants are automatically Jews for the rest of their lives, as well. Right?

Edit: Mind you, the more traditional movements may not recognize the validity of conversions by liberal movements, and the aforementioned descendants might need to also be raised Jewish to be considered Jews by certain movements.

Ken

Religious Nutjob

Optimist Prime

"College is like an Irish marriage. After the honeymoon, it's just a lot of work and a lot of drinking." –Chip Sinton

"Who could have predicted that building a fully-enclosed ski resort on the edge of the Persian Gulf might be a sign of a bubble economy?" –Josh Marshall

3:21 am
November 13, 2004

XavierAKadafi

posts 7053

64

maybe by society, andu…

But what your beliefs are are what they are.. Whether you were jewish before or not. If you decide to become of any other religion you're that religion.. They can't hold you to that previous judhaism

"Mosh now or die

And if I get sniped tonight

You'll know why..

Cuz I told you to fight!"

-Marshall Mathers; Mosh (Encore)

Katrina says:

lots of fun, there were even a couple of dogs there!

Katrina says:

it's not a party without a dog ;)

"I drove for miles and miles and wound up at your door / I've had you so many times but somehow I want more" says:

… Kat, I don't want to think about what you do with dogs…

3:27 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

65

The problem here is that you are all thinking of Judaism as only a religion and a religion about belief at that. You've mostly all grown up in a Christian society with little experience of how different Judaism is from Christianity. Judaism isn't about belief. It is about both belonging to a people and about a framework for learning about life and living well. The framework part you can walk away from all you want. But just as you are born into your family and cannot simply will that away, you are born or adopted into Judaism as a peoplehood. The peoplehood aspect of Judaism is central to it and you don't have Judaism without it.

And it isn't Judhaism.. That spelling doesn't exist Xav. smile

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

3:46 am
November 13, 2004

XavierAKadafi

posts 7053

66

Well.. Yash, if they's have a simple spelling.. BUT NO! x.x..

I see your point, but you could still just walk away from it all. tongue

"Mosh now or die

And if I get sniped tonight

You'll know why..

Cuz I told you to fight!"

-Marshall Mathers; Mosh (Encore)

Katrina says:

lots of fun, there were even a couple of dogs there!

Katrina says:

it's not a party without a dog ;)

"I drove for miles and miles and wound up at your door / I've had you so many times but somehow I want more" says:

… Kat, I don't want to think about what you do with dogs…

3:56 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

67

Well you can walk away from your family, but they are still your family. No amount of walking away can change that.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

4:04 am
November 13, 2004

XavierAKadafi

posts 7053

68

they're still your family, but if they're not part of your life, they're not part of your life.

"Mosh now or die

And if I get sniped tonight

You'll know why..

Cuz I told you to fight!"

-Marshall Mathers; Mosh (Encore)

Katrina says:

lots of fun, there were even a couple of dogs there!

Katrina says:

it's not a party without a dog ;)

"I drove for miles and miles and wound up at your door / I've had you so many times but somehow I want more" says:

… Kat, I don't want to think about what you do with dogs…

4:09 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

69

Right. That's my point. You can walk away from Jewish practice but you cannot walk away from the part of Jewishness that is a combination of a heritage and of recognition in the eyes of the rest of the Jewish people. You can spend your entire life away from Judaism, but if you meet the basic requirements for your children to be considered Jewish they will be accepted by Jews as Jews no matter what. Think of being adopted into Judaism as a membership card that doesn't expire even if you don't think you have any use for it anymore.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

5:06 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

71

Um no. Because conversion in Judaism is like adoption into a family. Once you have gone through the process of conversion you are no different than a born Jew. It's very different than conversion in Christianity for example.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

5:33 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

74

Well you've got to realize that conversion is a very lengthy process in which you are actively discouraged, so that only those who are really serious end up converting. Not all people treat converts the way they should, but according to Judaism a convert is no different from other Jews. Period.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

5:48 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

76

Agreed, but practice is in many ways what makes Judaism. Let's just say that the actual adherence to practice in Judaism is overall higher than in Christianity because of the more structured approach to it's spread. Since everyone can do Christianity I think there is a wider disparity with it's practice. Since you have to go through a more rigorous process with Judaism it tends to paint within the lines more.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

5:58 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

78

Kashrut isn't a requirement. We are talking conversion. It's different.

You really can't look at this through prism of it being just like Christianity but with different details.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

6:28 am
November 13, 2004

Yasha

posts 13435

80

Alex, the "Bible" isn't Judaism. You really need to study Judaism more directly for all of this to make more sense.

“But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” – James Boswell

"How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose? . . . A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned 'no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies.' This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn." – Joe Lieberman

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